holy shit my heart stopped, as did Frank’s i’m sure.
Poor Frank. I find it offensive when I hear people using that word no matter the circumstances, even if they’re friends fooling around with each other. Now I just want to give Frank cuddles.
Personally, I don’t.
I’ve been called derogatory terms with affection and didn’t mind in the slightest.
And I’ve also been called affectionate terms with derogatory intent and man did that hurt.
I find the ‘intent’ of the words to be much more important then the words themselves.
I can’t get behind that, actually. It’s being used as an insult (if only playfully).
You are trying to make someone feel bad (or pretending to) because you are calling them a homosexual. Ergo: You think being gay is something one should feel ashamed of.
I understand that many people don’t actually (purposefully) gay-bash when they use the word. That’s fine and dandy, but the essential concept of it is what makes it such a nasty thing to say.
Fair enough. I understand that the practiced definition is the defacto perceived intent. It’s not something someone should flippantly use and missuse. But I feel it’s more important to be conscious of the word’s currently practiced use. I had a manager who would shout ‘sugar’ where another person might use the ‘F’ word. I had a friend who would call me “Dork Kid”, but we genuinely got along. (She even asked me on occasion if I took offense to it and I waved it off.) Are either cases proper uses of the words? Likely as not. I only decide for myself to be repulsed by one and embrace the other. I admit it’s not for everyone, but I don’t feel any less for it.
i think this is the most civil internet debate I’ve ever seen…
That’s because this is not youtube. People have sense here
Mhm! I get your point totally. It’s a personal choice, whether or not to take offense to the words. I just think people should be sort of considerate of others (unlike the boys in page, poor Frank.) because some words have seriously negative effects on others who don’t take it so lightly, even if the word was only overheard and not “meant for them”.
Bottom line: I think we pretty much agree here. xD
Wow. This was extremely pleasant.
You’re absolutely right though. Hearing the words used in passing, without the context of knowing the character of the people using them, will default the definition to the dictionary (as demonstrated in the comic). Words have power, and it’s important to understand the consequences of using that power.
My argument wasn’t necessarily in regards to that, not that it isn’t important to understand, and we are in total agreement there. The original comment mentioned ‘no mater the circumstances’. If I understood the circumstances, I’d try to take that into consideration. Often the conclusion would be the same as taking the dictionary version and there’s every right to be indignant and intervene, but on the occasions it hadn’t I felt it made all the difference in the world. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, but it made a difference.
But yeah, having a good debate is one of the most fun things in the world. I had a friend in high school whom we fundamentally disagreed on practically ‘everything’. It’s not the normal basis for a friendship, but we’d rationally argue our points against each other. It got to the point where we looked forward to having something to argue calmly about. A difference in opinion is never an excuse to poorly defend your point or to forget the person you’re debating with isn’t a real person with real reasons for taking their side. And the exchange of knowledge is the most important part of a debate; ‘Winning’, ‘Loosing’, and ‘Agreeing to Disagree’ are distractions at best and unhealthy obsessions at worst.
I’ve always enjoyed a civil debate, its just such a fundamentally important thing to do since it incorporates a diversity in opinion and view but also allows for reconciliation in some form.
Personally I still find the word offensive, but as offended as I might be, I always try to brush it off. I really just try to do my part in every day life to diffuse the intensity or venom of any overtly offensive word or phrase, especially if it is discriminatory in intent or origin. Kind of like how people used to get super offended by the word crap, ass, hell and douche, but now we tolerate it all in normal language and are already phasing shit, fuck, balls, and to a degree, cunt.
They can still be offensive, but the discriminatory aspect is what really gets to me. Intent also has a huge part in taking offense to something, but in the end, I’d rather the word fag & faggot be returned to its true meaning, a stick or bunch of sticks. Kind of also applies to how musk sticks (the sweets) used to be called fags, but in order to avoid bad reputation and attention they changed it to fads. Why? It’s a clinical term really. It sort of devolved from these sorts of lines of idiosyncrasy and allowed such harmless terms to become ammunition for such hate.
But people don’t always know how the intention of the words are. I’m queer myself, and have a lot of queer friends (trans, gay etc) and all of them find “faggot” or “gay” as a slur hurtful, even if it’s not meant that way.
There are even studies about queer teens and such slurs, and even if not meant harmful, they can increase depression, anxiety and therefore suicide.
“I don’t mean it that way” is in my opinion just an excuse because you don’t want to change your habits. But is it really the right thing to maybe hurt people, because you feel that it’s your right to say what you want? “Faggot” is not the same as “fuck” or “shit” – it refers to a group of people and always does so in a very negative way. It’s the same with racism – would you call your friend nigger for fun, or chink or chinaman, just because he/she goofed around a bit or behaved like an idiot?
And should people feel offended if you saw a guy in a pink shirt and glittering glasses, and you say “oh man, look at that guy. So effing jew”? Yes they should.
There is absolutly no good excuse for using faggot or gay as slurs, or jokes about “girlish” stuff or behavior. You don’t need these two words to live a happy life, but using these will make it worse for others.
This was so well stated!
Intent is important. I agree with you 100% about that.
Still, certain terms, such as the word used in the comic originally came from a derogatory place, hence I associate that word with negative connotations no matter what the intent of the speaker. Plus most of the people I’ve known who have used that word have done it to irritate or shame the person they said the word about. And while it is impossible to avoid offending everyone you come across I personally believe it is better to avoid using words that could be considered inflammatory by others.
And that’s my ten cents worth.
Excellent points. It’s to risk walking on a minefield to use said derogatory words. On the other hand there’s a lot of unstated power in how words are received and treated. For instance, “Nice” originally meant in Latin to be ignorant. “Awful” meant “full of awe”. The words now mean nothing like they originally did.
So sure, I could ignore context and let the horrible definition reign, or I could be context aware and facilitate in my own small part a reclaiming of the word.
I’d never encourage the use of insults and swears, and I know it’s not for everyone, but I’ve decided that I’ll be the one deciding what those words mean to me, and I feel I’ve genuinely gained some strength of character from that.
Kudos to you for your decision. I think that’s very admirable of you and something that we all should probably aspire to. I suppose allowing words someone said to you to hurt or offend is giving the speaker power over your life by saying their opinion matters to you. Although truthfully I find it easier to brush off words aimed at me then things said to those close to me.
Thank you for giving me something to think about!
Haha, I wouldn’t quite go that far. The opinion of the speaker still maters quite a lot to me. It’s just the word choice by itself isn’t as important as the word usage. To me, it’s the difference between translation and localization. One gives you what the speaker was trying to say, and the other tries to incorporate what the speaker was trying to convey.
But yeah, that’s the sign that you’re a good friend when you’re so willing to take offense on another’s behalf. Never loose that. It makes you a better human.
And that is really all I’m trying for honestly, to be a better human. I appreciate being able to learn about why other people think and react the way they do, since I believe we grow by our interactions with others. It has been an interesting discussion.
Okay I never posted a comment on here before, but this page really hit home.
I’ve actually had this kind of thing happen to me in real life. I really feel
for Frank since it can be really scary to think someone’s going to approach you
in anger because of your sexuality.
Oh god that gave me a mini heart attack
Kori, dear, calling them assholes is gonna make jump all the anuses in the hallway X°D
No, seriously, Frank was so proud & happy in panel 1 then in panel 3 “if I’m still alive after this beating, I’ll never as much as approach Lee again in public‼” That was the fastest sweat-breaking of his young life ¬.¬’
Poor Frank! I just want to give him the biggest hug – I know I would jump out of my skin too in that situation.
Frank’s life was just reduced by 10 years.
Well, let’s not go overboard. I’ve survived 50 years of hearing the word “faggot” and, like Frank, have jumped in case it meant I was about to be attacked. And it’s a burden I wish I didn’t have, but it didn’t take decades off my life. And, in fact, growing up as part of a minority that even my family didn’t belong to made me a more empathetic and socially-conscious person.
Someone is apparently not in the Running Man/kpop-fandom.
Though I’m sorry if you felt offended, that wasn’t really my intention. Also I’m sorry you’ve been through that in your life. Luckily it’s not something I’ve had to go through, it’s more accepted for me being bisexual as a woman I guess. I live in a pretty good country after all (except for the long winters..)
After reading all the comments, all I have to say is that that word is much like the “n” word for African American’s….while now a days it’s often used with non-offensive intent, the word itself did originate as something derogatory. And as such, no matter the intent, it is still not something that should be said so loosely. While I personally don’t take offense by it, I still know that it’s offensive.
I think people should just be more aware of the words they are using and really think before using them. *nod nod*
But anyway, Frank’s expressions in panels 3 and 4 are so strong, it’s both wonderful and horrible. >3< It'll be ok bby, and if it's not send them to me and I'll put them right *cracks knuckles*
That word actually originated from the period in time where it was common to burn witches. They would find a witch, round up some gay men, and then use the gay guys as faggots (kindling sticks) in order to fully light the fire that would burn the witch.
And…. *tightens black belt* I’m right there with you. We can tag team ’em, if they give him any crap.
That is the cutest banner ever!! Love the new website!
Seeing the word does not offend me. Seeing Franks reaction, however, is what really gets to me.
Poor Frank, that’d be really scary…
oh man. Frank’s face and teh jaggedy edges of that text really does a great job of conveying the horrible jolting feeling of thinking someone is yelling at you. It’s like hearing a gunshot. Great job.
Don’t I recognize that… :S Beautiful done. ^^
Even my heart raced at that :/
Visit my homepage for
a list of my current